Windows 7 - HD advice plz

Asked By RJK on 13-Aug-12 12:14 PM
...sorry for double posting, meant to post here first.

This afternoon, I tried to do my backups, and Ghost 14.0 gave me an error !
(just before starting backup images, I deleted about 300gb's of *.vob files
on E:\ - recycle bin always off  on that drive)...

internal hd's
C:\ Disk 1 320gb Seagate (XP Home ed. boot drive)
D:\ Disk 2 160gb Seagate (Bought progs. drivers etc.)
E:\ Disk 3 500gb ST35004118AS

C:\ and D:\ imaged out to external Disk 0 500gb ST35004118AS F:\
okay, (Sumvision hd enclosure + eSATA Jmicron PCIe x1 card / eSATA lead),
but when Disk 3 started being Ghosted out to ext. hd F:\, up popped Ghost
with :-

Error E7C3000F:
Device\\?\SymantecSnapshot3 cannot read 20480 sectors starting @ LBA

Error: EBAB03F1:
The request could not be performed because of an I/O device error

So I booted into Safe mode with command prompt and did a  CHKDSK E: /f/r
...tried to Ghost 14.0 image E:\ out to F:\ again and got the same error
messages from Ghost, so CHKDSK did not fix it.

...SO, I booted with Spinrite 6 CD and ran a surface scan on E:\  which
progressed normally for approx. 5 - 10 minutes, then SPinrite 6 started
fussing for ages over an area near the beginning of the disk, (I am guessing
LBA 20295304 onwards) !!  ...I went for Lunch, and when I came back Spinrite
6 was still fussing over that area, so I went away for a couple of hours,
and when I came back, the whole surface scan had finished, and I could not
find any details in Spinrite as to if any blocks had been swapped out from
the hd's reserve pool etc.

E:\ is where all my photos (only about 27gb's), and music videos (only about
28gb's ), are kept, and I only keep one backup image of drives D:\ and E:\
....on F:\
I do keep 3 copies of my boot drive C:\ on F:\

...anyhow E:\ is only about two years old at the most and Speedfan's web
SMART report says:-

Your hard disk is a ST3500418AS with firmware CC49.
The average temperature for this hard disk model is 34°C (min=25°C max=43°C)
and yours is 36°C.

Attribute                                           Current   Raw
Raw Read Error Rate                        102        00000039299D
Spin Up Time                                    97         000000000000
Start/Stop Count                                97         000000000FB5
Reallocated Sector Count                 100         000000000000
Seek Error Rate                                69           00000077C063
Power On Hours Count                     98         0000000007BD
Spin Retry Count                            100          000000000000
Power Cycle Count                           99          00000000077C
SATA Downshift Error Count         100           000000000000
End To End Error Count                 100           000000000000
Reported Uncorrectable Errors        1               0000000007FB
Command Time Out                        100           00000000000E
High Fly Writes                               100           000000000000
Hardware ECC Recovered               38            00000039299D
Current Pending Sector                    100          000000000000
Offline Uncorrectable Sector Count  100          000000000000
Ultra DMA CRC Error Rate             200          000000000000
Write head                                      100           0EBC000019F2
Total LBAs Written                         100          0000BABFC96C
Total LBAs Read                            100          000052C5139B

All of the attributes of your hard disk have normal values. This is good.
The overall fitness for this drive is 100%.
The overall performance for this drive is 100%.

....FWIW  I have never had problems with Ghost 14.0 imaging the above
mentioned 3 hd's across the past, getting on for two years,
....any idea what went bang on drive E:\ that  chkdsk could not fix, yet
Spinrite 6 was able to fix ?

....and should I be swapping out E:\ for a new disk, and putting
aforementnioned E:\ under small sledge hammer ?

regards, Richard

David H. Lipman replied to RJK on 13-Aug-12 12:48 PM
Sounds like a bad sector that was remapped.

I guesst downloading and burning a CDROM for SeaGate's SeaTool and then
check the hard disk.

Multi-AV Scanning Tool -
Paul replied to RJK on 13-Aug-12 01:39 PM

value decreases as the count of reallocated sectors increases. In this
case, the attributes raw value will often indicate the
actual count of sectors that were reallocated, although vendors are
in no way required to adhere to this convention."

And, of course that indicator is "not linear".

Disks have errors, when they leave the factory. The manufacturer has
an "acceptance criteria" for the disk (kinda like "dead pixels" on an
LCD screen). If it had, say, more than 500,000 spared out sectors, perhaps
they would not ship it. And then, they have to set up Reallocated Sector Count,
so it does not show "trouble", when there are errors as the thing leaves
the factory. Imagine the look of shock and horror, on a customer's face,
when they check the SMART stats on the new drive, and there are reallocations
already showing. That would be a tech support nightmare.

That indicator cannot be linear. There must be a more complicated behavior.

I suspect 100 percent health is shown, up to a fairly large number of
reallocations, then a smaller scale is used for successive errors. This
can result in the health appearing to deteriorate rapidly.

I base this, purely on observation. A brand new drive, with a bad area
in it, and horrible performance. And the Reallocated Sectors Count being
SMART is concerned. So the Reallocated Sectors Count cannot be completely

So it is my personal opinion, that the scheme is not an honest one.
Yes, it still has value as a health indicator. But no, do not
assume the SMART statistics for bad sectors, are necessarily linear
in nature. If the indicators were linear, most new disks would
end up showing reallocations (which in fact, is perfectly understandable).
They cannot keep throwing away platters that have one tiny blemish, so
blemished products are going to leave the factory. I know, as I have
several of them here, right now :-(  They cannot sell them for $80 a drive,
if they throw away a large percentage of platters while "looking for a good one".

This is what the attributes looked like on my recently replaced hard drive.
This sequence happened over a couple of days, after the drive had been
running "100% healthy" for a year. The other mysterious part of this
drive, was the "Current Pending" SMART field, never showed one problem!
Normally, problem sectors "queue up" in Current Pending, to be processed.

Current Worst Threshold Data   Status
Reallocated Sector Count    100     100   36          0     OK    <--- for at least a year
Reallocated Sector Count    100     100   36         57     OK
Reallocated Sector Count     98      98   36        104     OK    <--- replaced it.

That drive still works, but is pretty slow on write, down near the
end of the disk. I could not stand the putrid performance any more,
and I replaced it so I'd get some speed back. And really, looking
back on it, the drive showed signs from day one, of being "afflicted".
I could see the difference, when doing HDTune benchmark graphs.

glee replied to RJK on 13-Aug-12 09:04 PM
Uncorrectable Errors are errors that could not be recovered using
hardware ECC.  it is tripping on the uncorrectable error.  The last time
I ran across this on a data drive (it had 3 uncorrectable errors), I
copied everything off it, did a long format of the drive, then copied
the data back onto it.
Glen Ventura
MS MVP  Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
CompTIA A+